[“Night Owl” by Broke for Free, Me/Us/U’s theme song, plays, slowly fading under the narration]
Brett Hernandez-Marin: This is Me/Us/U, the student podcast of Susquehanna University. We ask the big questions here, and our hosts are here to take you through them. Today on the agenda is, why does diversity matter? Well, for the part of the population here that isn’t white or even heteronormative, it can be daunting to realize that you may be different, and that can shape your college experience in many different ways.
Where can you see yourself on campus? And how does the campus treat you? There’s progress being made in terms of diversity, but there’s one moment that can be pinpointed as the start of a revolution. On March 7th, 2023, a Black Lives Matter banner that was positioned on the wall of the Degenstein Campus Center was torn down.
In response, student leaders of the Black Student Union issued out a statement that recognized the injustice and a power imbalance in the campus community. BSU stated, “We are still here. We are still strong. The Black Student Union here at Susquehanna wants you all to know that you are respected, recognized, appreciated, and loved by us.”
Signed by the members of the executive board and released into the public, it was a call to action for many. Two days later, there was a gathering for unity where the diversity presidents formed a united front, calling out the incident that had occurred and that as a community, we should expect to do better.
In the time since that has occurred, the climate has shifted. Diversity clubs are more visible than ever and are doing great and amazing things. So, let’s take a stroll and hear what’s the what with diversity here at SU. For now, let me cook.
[“Night Owl” briefly plays again to transition into the next segment]
Melissa Logan: Susquehanna has several diversity clubs on campus. There’s ISA, or the International Student Association, ALAS, the Association of Latinx & Allied Students, ACA, the Asian Cultural Association, GSA, the Gender & Sexuality Alliance, the NCBW, the National Congress of Black Women, and BSU, the Black Student Union. All of these clubs have weekly meetings and host many events throughout the year meant to recognize and uplift marginalized communities on campus. For example, for the past few years, BSU has hosted an annual Black Excellence Showcase, which features various performances from Black students as part of BSU’s Black History Month celebrations.
Our diversity clubs often join forces in solidarity, like when the Black Lives Matter flag was vandalized and torn down.
I’m Melissa Logan, and I sat down with Nala Washington, the president of BSU, to talk about the BLM banner incident and SU’s diversity efforts since then.
ML: What was going through your mind when you first learned about the banner being vandalized?
Nala Washington: Oh, man. It honestly feels so long ago. It was literally in March of this year. That’s crazy. That was last semester.
I remember I woke up that morning, and I remember I was sick that week. I already wasn’t feeling good. And that week also recently a friend of mine had passed, so I was not in the right head space. And I remember I got a call from Amy Davis. She called me up, she’s like, “Hey, so…Hi.” And I’m like, “Hi?” And she’s like, “I have something to tell you.” And I know Amy Davis well enough to know when something’s wrong. So, I’m like, “Just get it out, like spit it out.” And so she told me that the Black Lives Matter flag that had been hanging on Degenstein since – I believe they kind of…it’s recent, like they put it up in 2020 because all the riots that was happening, like George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, like the three main ones, and all the other Black lives lost during that year – it’s recent, and she said that it had got torn down. And I was like, “What do you mean? What do you mean?” And I feel like, I feel like a spur of emotions again, like I wasn’t there mentally, like I just suffered loss, so I’m like in this place of grief and grieving.
But then also, February had just kind of ended, and the Black Student Union does so much in February, so much. We were on a high. Like, our showcase was the best that it’s been, in my opinion; we had CBS 21 come out to do an interview with us. And like all these other great things that were happening. It’s like, you know, the buzz around the Black Student Union was finally happening. Like, people knew who we were, finally. You know, after like, two, three years of being kind of like, inactive on this campus. And then that. So, you can imagine like, oh, okay, like I just completely dropped, and man that was hard.
I met with Amy Davis like 20 minutes after that. I just like throw on some clothes, and we went to talk about it. She showed me what had happened, like what it looked like and stuff, like the people on stupid Yik Yak – I hate that app. People on Yik Yak were saying like, “Oh, it was the wind, it was the wind.” It’s like no, like you could see the tracks were physically, like, pulled out of the wall, and the flag was ripped down. And it was just so interesting, the timing of everything, and I was just like, huh.
Because I also feel like as a campus, we were and are not still ready to have those type of conversations because you cannot bring somebody from the outside to the inside to talk about these things when you’re not talking about it internally within the campus.
And so, I felt like that struck a nerve, and then a week later, the flag got, like, ripped down. I was like, this is so annoying, because then that whole conversation, like the harm that was done was disproportionately felt by Black and brown students and LGBTQ+ students, and we didn’t ask for that. You know, we didn’t ask for this, and I was just like, dang, like, that’s crazy.
That happened, and then I was like, sharing with Amy, and I just remember I broke down crying, like, I was like, oh my god, like, I’m so overwhelmed, and I remember going to Deg; that day also happened to be – we have a student and faculty of color luncheon, like, every, like, first Wednesday or whatever – and that happened to be that day, and so all of them were there, including President Green.
And I remember, I just started writing, ‘cause I’m a writer and I gotta get stuff out. So, I just started writing and it turned into that letter on the page. And I remember, like, a lot of our faculty and staff disappointed me because they came to me and they were like, “What are you going to do?” And I was like, “What are you going to do?” Like, I don’t work here at Susquehanna University. Like, what are you going to do? What policies and practices are in place for you to handle this situation correctly?
Like, you know, and so we wrote that letter. What a letter. And I remember that night, we weren’t even going to meet. Because that’s, Melissa, it was also the week before spring break. And I’m like, oh my god, it’s midterms. Like, what is going on? And so, I wasn’t going to meet that night with the Union. But then I sent the email out. I was like, I’m sure most of you heard what happened. So, we will be congregating tonight. And when I tell you that room was filled, it was almost 100 people in there. And allies and Black people, like faculty and staff, and that made my heart happy for a split second because I remembered why we were there. And I remember, like, they had so many questions that I couldn’t answer, and it was just so hard, like, as a leader, as a prominent leader on this campus. But to have something like that happen, so now I’m not only a leader, I’m a Black leader on this campus. I’m like, y’all, I don’t have all the words, I don’t have all the right things, but we have a letter, and we can get it out there and make the school aware that this isn’t okay, like something needs to happen, something needs to be put in place, you know?
And so, I remember we read the letter out loud to the Union and we all sat there in silence. And everybody, like, kind of like pulled their phones out waiting for us to post this so they can repost.
But yeah, that was like a whole thing and that whole week. I was…I was so drained, like just thinking about it drains me, like I was so drained.
I also, like, had some arguments with them, my executive board, because it was like do we post a letter? Do we not post a letter? So, does everybody’s name go on it? Does your name only go on it? The news picked it up, like it was in the front paper in The Daily Item, and I was like, be so for real. Be so for real.
The Daily Item picked up the story. A bunch of other people picked up the story. I argued so hard with MarComm that weekend. Because I was like, you didn’t even ask us to use our letter. Like I get they can get the information off the page, but they came through you first. So, I was like, why are you not thinking about protecting your students, when we’re in harm’s way yet again? So that was like a whole conversation we had to have, because it gave very much white savior complex and white savior everything, and I was like, I don’t need a Jesus, I need you to like keep it straight with me, you know.
So yeah, all of that happened within like three, four days, and then I left for spring break, and I like turned my phone off. I didn’t answer any emails. Like it was hard. It was hard.
I think the hardest part was definitely, like, not only my members and Union kind of looking at me, like, “What are we doing?” Because I feel like that’s more understandable than staff and faculty coming to me asking me, like, “What are we doing” or “What are you going to do?” What do you mean? Like, I’m a big advocate for everything Black on this campus, but I’m like, what are the practices and policies in place? Why aren’t they in place? Why aren’t you implementing them? Why aren’t they being used now? Why are you asking a student first? Like, I’m a student first. Why are you asking a student what to do when something like this happens? You know, like it’s a hate crime, and I’m just like, uh, you fix it, like, you work here, this is your university first, you know.
So, that was hard. It still is hard. I have, like, freshmen that came in this year, like, asking me about the situation because the letter’s still on our page. And so, we’ve talked about it in, like, our BSU meetings before. Obviously, I’m going to be honest with them, like, how I’m honest with you. I didn’t like that one bit. But, like, it was hard, to say the least. Like, a lot happened that week, honestly.
ML: So, can you sort of walk me through what has happened since then?
NW: Yeah, so, the flag was ripped out in March. Spring break. All over the news. People were requesting, like, interviews with us, and I – we decided to decline. ‘Cause I didn’t wanna – I’m down to fight that fight, but not that much. Like, my mental was on the line, and I was like, I can’t do this.
Yeah, so then after all of that I went home to my parents. I cried a lot. At the time, I was with my partner, and so he had to be just away for a couple of days just to get me out of the school and like, you know, the spotlight and all of that.
And then from there, Arianna Sivio, our former SGA president, she graduated, she has my heart. She came to me about a couple weeks later, and she, she actually had the idea for a mural. And at first, her idea was it be centered around Black lives lost, Black lives who’ve inspired, and obviously, like, us on campus who represent African Americans. But then I – not that I didn’t love that, but I was like, I’d rather us include everyone. Like, I want our international students, our Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders, our Native American students, and all the people, LGBTQ+ community, like, I was like, no, like, all these communities are marginalized on campus, not just us, and though this has happened to us, I was like, the way they stood with us afterwards, like, I thought that was super imperative to keep in mind, and I was like, I want us all to be represented in something, you know.
And so, she had the idea to create this mural, and I was like, that’s so tough. Let’s see if we can make that happen. And so, we mocked up a plan with Amy Davis, and we came to her, and she thought it was genius. And there’s a local artist in the town. He created this mural art on the side of Kind Cafe. So he has done a lot of stuff locally and within PA. So, Amy Davis was trying to get in contact with him. And we kept having presidents’ meetings and so we brought everyone into the project, and then Arianna made sure that SGA approved $30k before she graduated for this project to happen. And so that’s been sitting there just for us, and whatever it was not used on – whatever is not used on the mural goes straight to the Center for Diversity and Inclusion. That was my one request.
And so she did that and then it’s been kind of like a – just trying to watch my words – it’s been kind of like a push and pull at some offices. At some point like they want to make sure obviously our campus is big on inclusivity, which is fine, but like, the campus was made for white people, you know, so it’s just like how much inclusivity, how much say do they have on this project? And I feel like that was super important. I was like, I don’t want our voices to be lost. Not that I don’t want other students involved, but I don’t want the prime voices that this is supposed to be about to be lost.
And so Amy Davis has made sure that that has not happened. Like, we met with the artist first, and we saw mockups and things like that, and so that’s been fun. So I can say that we met with him this semester, and he was very nice. And we did a thing called Story Circles, which was just like, I think he told us, like, pick two fabrics that represents, like, how we felt when it was ripped down and how we feel now. And we talked about that, and we like shared a lot of things in that room from all the different like ethnicities, nationalities, and sexualities, and it was something, I’ll tell you that.
And so he took that, and he created these mockups, and I think that’s all I can say about that for now. We’re waiting now for it to be approved. But hopefully the plan is to have it done before we graduate. So, I’m holding her to that.
Yeah, because I feel like we’re making a little bit of progress. You know, like the SU Natives and Allies, they just got their plaque made from, like, the wood carved from the Susquehannock people. So that was revealed, like, a couple weeks ago, but like that project had been in the works since 2020. So like that, obviously that took a little long. And so I’d rather not the mural take as long as that because we have the money. We have the artists. Now it’s just time for the school to basically be like, all right, you know, let’s go, like the paperwork and stuff like that.
So I’m not really sure what’s happening all behind the scenes, but those are the parts that I’ve been a part of. So that’s the initiative that we’re really trying to push forward. So you can’t, you can’t tear down a mural. So sorry. You know, like, so that was like the main fact of that too.
And other than that, I feel like the diversity clubs are stronger and better than ever.
I’m very proud of my fellow diversity president, Samuel Awad. He’s impressing me so much with ISA, International Student Association. Like, I feel like he really turned it around. He’s making it so fun for them and I love every second.
Deja Boston, National College of Black Women is becoming better and better. I mean, she has a Black woman empowerment pageant coming in the spring, so I feel like we’re just trying to do different things too, so people know you’re seen, and you’re heard.
So I know BSU, we’re still doing our showcase in February. We have a lot of other different events planned. I’m doing a Black history month bash. I don’t know what that means yet, but we’re going to plan like a bunch of events around that as well as our African American poetry series and all the other things. So I feel like because of that, like it kind of pushed us just a little bit further to keep pushing our presence on this campus and keep pushing that we are important. So yeah, that’s what’s happening with that.
ML: So, what else do you think needs to be done to make SU a more inclusive place for students of color?
NW: Oh, for one, approve my mural. Like, actually, yeah. I think when the whole flag thing happened, we – me and Deja Boston – we had talked a lot. And so we went to, like, the Student Rights Handbook and, like, read a lot of policies that I feel like needs to be touched up a little bit or be more specific when hate crimes and things like that happen.
Because that has not stopped, you know? Like, at all, actually. I know, like, I think it was last year, like, a swastika was drawn in, like, one of the freshman dorms. Yeah, and then the incident with the LGBTQ+ housing, they got yelled out by some bystanders, some, you know, some, some slurs. So that happened.
I’ve heard stuff from my members this year that things have happened, too, so I feel like having more policies in place; I love policies. You know, and if the policies are in place, then, like, following them to a T. And then I think actually, like, I think they’re starting to a little bit, but paying just a little more attention to all the diversity orgs and clubs because we’re here for a reason. And a lot of people do not know about us. Yeah, yeah. Just promoting us a little bit more. Just giving us a little bit more love, you know. So people know that we are here for you, and you are not alone. Yeah.
NW: I think, like I said earlier, not – not dimming down your light, not dimming down who you are. Personally, because I am African American, your Blackness is a part of who you are, regardless if you like it or not, so use it. Use it to your advantage, use it to get ahead, use it to shine your light brightly on this campus.
I mean, it’s hard, like, I am surrounded by white people every single day. I am one of the few, like literally there are only two Black people in the senior class at the creative writing department. And, I get it, like, it’s hard, feeling like an outcast, it’s hard when your skin meets everyone before you do. But using that to your advantage and using that, saying like I am very well aware of this, but that’s not a problem for you to have, it’s not a problem period, because regardless we’re all students at the end of the day, and we’re here to get an education, we’re here to be active, and we’re here to do what we gotta do to get that degree.
So, I think just keep going, keep pushing – that sounds really corny when I say it – but like legitimately, ‘cause you’re gonna have to push a little harder than the rest of them. You’re gonna have to – listen, they got one boulder, we got like three. Like just because of our Blackness, you know? Don’t even get me started on all the different intersectionalities that people might have as well.
So, I think honestly just keep chugging up that hill, keep pushing forward, make the best of it, because college is college anywhere. Shit gonna happen anywhere. Like legitimately the flag stuff has happened at other schools as well, not to diminish our experience but it’s not just Susquehanna. It’s college, you know, so making the best of these – how many of your years you have left, and really just cherishing it, taking advantage of all the opportunities not just with BSU but outside of BSU, like putting yourself out there. I mean, come on guys, I’m a homecoming queen, like, I do all this other stuff on campouts, I feel like I’m so random, you know, and it’s just like, because I continue to put myself out there, I make these connections, and I’m networking, and it’s like, people know who I am, and they respect that, you know. So I feel like, just getting yourself out there.
Just keep pushing for it, man. It sounds really – I sound like a greeting card. Keep pushing forward, keep pushing onward, because at the end of the day, I promise you, it’s gonna be worth it. Like, I know I’m gonna look back once we walk that stage in May, and I’m gonna be like, I did that. I did it. I did it all four years. Like, I did that. Not only college, but like, I did that as a Black woman at a predominantly white institution.
So, I feel like that’s super important. Just, you know, your blackness is a part of you, it’s not a weakness, it’s not something to be scared of, it’s not something to try and hide. Like, be yourself, you know, like, and if people can’t accept that, then those people don’t need to be around you. So, that’s all I gotta say.
[“Night Owl” briefly plays again to transition into the next segment]
BHM: Now then, it’s about time you got to hear from me. My name is Brett Hernandez-Marin, and I’m currently serving as the Vice President of ALAS, the Association of Latinx and Allied Students. As part of my work in understanding not only myself, and what effect diversity might have on my college experience, I wanted to talk to a pro.
María Muñoz, who is the Interim Chief Inclusion and Diversity Officer here at SU, was that pro. We share the common ground of Mexican identity. Although, she has a doctorate. So I wanted to hear from her about what it means to be a minority going through higher education, as well as any life lessons she might have for me.
BHM: Would you say, like, how much has, like, you know, like, your culture, all that, how has that impacted you as, like – like, is it, like, you know, a piece in a puzzle, or is it, like, how, you know, bodies are, like, 70 percent water? Like, how would you describe, like, how it has made you as a person?
María Muñoz: I mean, it’s been fundamental, obviously. I think, perhaps not everybody goes through this, but, you know, I’ve talked to students, and I think one of the questions you have here about, you know, imposter syndrome and things of that sort: when you go to PWIs and just higher education in general, there’s a particular sort of understanding, or at least we come into it with an understanding that we’re to be different, right, than what we are. And so the code switching that takes place, right, and to some extent imposter syndrome.
But one of the things that – that helped me sort of keep my sense of self, certainly my family. Right? And there are moments where you’re like, you know, that you like, oh, I don’t think this cultural thing is useful or like, no, you know, mom doesn’t work that way. Right? Or we don’t do that in college or that doesn’t happen here. That kind of thing. But, you know, one of the things that has been really sort of fundamental for me, and I wouldn’t necessarily say that it’s fixed culture, but it’s really about outlook, right?
So, you know, there’s always charges about, for folks who don’t see or think that we belong or the reason why we got to this point is because we were given an opportunity that others deserve more than us, right? Affirmative action. Here’s the thing, right? Who you know might get you in the door, but it’s what you know that keeps you there. Right? So it’s really about opportunity, right? Whatever that opportunity – not everybody gets an opportunity, right? And you should. And so that’s my approach. Like, I don’t care that people – it’s taken me a while to get there, but I don’t care why people think I got where I did. I know. What I can do, right? Because otherwise, I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t be in these places or these spaces.
And so, you balance that self-assuredness with humility. Right? Because you gotta keep your feet on the ground. You can’t think you’re bigger than the game. Learn to play the game. Play the game. But the moment you start thinking you’re bigger than the game, that’s where it gets dicey, right? But understanding that it’s, you know, that outlook in life.
The other piece is – and I think this is kind of how I synthesize what I’ve learned from family, and from my parents – is be in the world, right? That is, just go out and do it, and actually be in it. And do the things that need to get done. Do the things that you want to do, right? It encompasses a lot of things. So, so be in the world. Live the world. And to some extent there’s a bit of luxury. Definitely, being on your own to some extent, but it’s also important to keep that, those lessons from family that context. So I wouldn’t say that there are, again, specific things, but just the lessons that I’ve learned over the years that really anchor that.
BHM: Yeah, definitely very, very great quotes I’m going to pull from. [Brett and María laugh.] But yeah, no, definitely. You know, it’s been great to talk like, you know, one-on-one, obviously, you know, there’s some things that are different or some things that are similar.
MM: Yeah.
BHM: And you know, just, you know, thinking like, you know, maybe taking things from what you said and how, like, how I value things and how I do things. So this has been, you know, a great interview for sure.
MM: Sure.
[Silence, and then “Night Owl” begins again and plays underneath some initial credits]
BHM: Thank you for listening. This has been your host, Brett Hernandez-Marin. Special thanks to our guest, María Muñoz, Chief Inclusion and Diversity Officer here at Susquehanna University. Thank you to our music, “Night Owl” by Broke for Free from the Free Music Archive, used under a CC-BY Creative Commons License.
Special thanks to the Office of Inclusion and Diversity here at Susquehanna for always providing the support that I’ve needed. Me/Us/U is licensed under Creative Commons License CC-BY-NC-ND, and for more interviews and fun episodes like this, check us out at Me/Us/U.org. Thank you.
[“Night Owl” continues for a little bit longer and then fades out]
BHM: Being in the world is some pretty powerful stuff. Recognizing that we deserve to be here is important, as well as going out into the world itself to go disrupt it. Except, how can we communicate this to students? Well, let me tell you, the Umoja ceremony, which welcomes incoming first-years of color, is a great way to show that there’s a community here, ready to support them in any way.
Student leaders of our many diversity clubs speak about the spaces that they’ve created, and that we’re here doing amazing things. Alongside them, the faculty of color, to show support and assist in welcoming the new class.
I got to speak at the ceremony this year, and one thing I made sure to say was, “Los tiempos lo que dura para siempre son los duros,” which means that the hard times don’t last forever, but those who are resilient do. I look forward to next year and what the students will become. Hopefully, no matter what they end up doing, they do it in a way that’s impossible to ignore. This tradition of Umoja will continue on and we’ll be able to show students the unity here at Susquehanna and that they’re not the first, they’re just the next step in a long legacy.
Now, speaking about legacy, let’s talk about the biggest diversity effort Susquehanna has seen yet. Not too far from now will be the installation of a mural on Degenstein Campus Center. The mural will be placed where the torn down banner once stood, to show strength for the diverse population at SU and what we bring to this campus.
The budget for the project was accepted at a student government meeting on November 6, 2023. The university partnered with Brushes with Destiny and artist Marcellus to capture the essence of diversity at Susquehanna. This was done through interviews, campus tours, and story circles with students. Three design concepts were created after story circles with students of BIPOC and LGBTQ+ communities.
Members of BSU, ISA, ACA, ALAS, and GSA made up these groups and were able to share the stories that made us who we are. In one such case, we picked fabrics, one to represent a high, and one to represent a low. I chose a fabric that reminded me of the currents at home, that reminded me of where I came from and what I came to do.
My second fabric was designer, and reminded me of expensive suits, to show the insecurity I felt being at college and whether or not I would make it in the real world. Stories like mine and the stories shared by real students helped create these designs that will hang proudly on the wall of the Campus Center.
Now, I would describe these designs to you, but I simply don’t know how to. So here are some words from the artist instead.
Describing the mural, I’d say it’s like a vivid tapestry of stories and dreams. It’s all about the vibrant journey of students from different walks of life, each bringing their unique background to the Susquehanna community. The mural celebrates not just our differences, but how we come together, sharing our hopes, and facing our challenges, be it financial, emotional, or societal.
One of the designs, which I find really powerful, shows a grandmother and her grandchild in a moment of storytelling. It’s about the legacy we inherit and the wisdom that’s passed down, fueling our future. Another design captures diverse student faces, all united in their aspirations and resilience. Each design, including the first one, mirrors the spirit and ambitions of the university community, highlighting our commitment to being a supportive, inclusive space where everyone can thrive.
It’s more than just paint on a wall. It’s a reflection of our shared journey and the transformative power of education and community at Susquehanna. My hope is that current students and future students alike can look towards it and find belonging, that real stories went into painting a picture of our community here.
We will continue to thrive and be who we are. So as they say, let me cook.
[“Night Owl” begins again and plays under the final credits]
ML: This episode was hosted by Brett Hernandez-Marin and Melissa Logan, with contributions from Laurel Barnes. Our guests were Nala Washington and Dr. María Muñoz. Special thanks to our advisor Dr. Heather Lang, and to Jena Lui, Kailah Johnson, and Cara Weaver, who were the hosts of “SU’s Declassified School Survival Guide: PWI Edition,” Me/Us/U’s previous episode on diversity at SU. Our theme song is “Night Owl” by Broke for Free from the Free Music Archive. We use it here under a CC-BY Creative Commons License. Me/Us/U is licensed under Creative Commons License CC-BY-NC-ND. For more from Me/Us/U, visit our website at me-us-u.org. Thanks for listening.
[“Night Owl” continues for a few seconds before fading into silence]