Cory: The moment I knew COVID-19 was serious,
Syd: we had already been sent home and we were just doing our online work.
Kayla: I was actually planning on going to Disney.
Amy: I was in Brazil studying abroad and we began to seeing clips on the television from Wuhan China airport of people taking temperatures and screening passengers.
Cory: They cancelled all my in-person classes and moved them online.
Syd: My niece had been born that January of 2020, and then my brother and his wife texted out “we’re gonna stop visits, you’re not gonna be able to see her.” That’s when I knew it was kind of serious because I was now a threat to my niece.
Kayla: My friend that we were with, he just stops in his tracks and he’s like “Guys the parks are closing on Saturday.”
Amy: and at that moment I really knew that it could not be contained, and it was a really scary moment.
*”Night Owl”, by Broke for Free plays*
Julie: When was the moment that you knew the pandemic was serious? Was it when coronavirus turned from a joke about getting sick from beer to an actual travel ban? When your spring break turned into a remote semester, or you were subject to quarantine? Did it hit you when your Wi-Fi couldn’t handle everybody home at once, or when the family dog just got used to seeing you every day?
Join host Gabby Rubino, me Julie Heaney, and our many interviewees as we explore our moments of realizations in a sea of uncertainty, we uncover some unlikely truths about ourselves and we discover that throughout debilitating isolation and fear, we weren’t as alone as it seemed after all.
*Ta Da! By Siddartha Corsus fades in, swells and fades out, a warm piano compilation that provides comfort for the listener, and continues for the rest of this segment and the next.*
This is Me/Us/U, a student produced podcast at Susquehanna University. Welcome.
Hello, my name is Julie and the moment I knew that COVID-19 was serious, that things were getting real was over spring break of 2020 when I was denied the malaria vaccination that I needed for my study abroad trip. As I sat in a strangely sticky, very uncomfortable doctor’s office chair, my provider explained to me why she didn’t feel comfortable giving me a vaccine and pulled up charts and data to prove why she thought I was not going on my summer South Africa trip. On the drive home from the Doctor’s office that day, unvaccinated and confused, it hit me full force: things weren’t going back to normal by the summer. And in that moment of exasperation and fear, I thought I’d never want a vaccine so badly. Needless to say, the coming year would prove me so wrong.
*music fades in and out*
Right then was the beginning of this general feeling of limbo between anxiety and despair that the COVID-19 pandemic has held me in. As I was bombarded by emails and news and University announcements, it felt like nothing was going to get better. I was lucky enough to only be a first year at the time that school was moved online, but the shift away from campus left me grasping at a sense of normalcy that I had just begun to feel in college. It wasn’t pretty, and it’s still not. The feeling of loneliness and desperation hasn’t been uncommon for the past year, which in a twisted way is the best thing about it. I guess it’s better to feel awful together than feel awful alone, and through this collection of anecdotes from real, tangible breathing, bleeding, and feeling humans just like you and I, I hope you can feel the prize that is human connection that we’ve all been missing.
*music fades in and out*
Julie: My best friend, Reva, is an international student from the UAE and this global pandemic has forced her to travel around the US from New York, PA, Texas, Oklahoma, to the UAE and where she currently is right now in India with her parents.
When I reflected on this idea of a moment of realization during the pandemic, it interested me that every individual likely had their own niche, different or similar explanation of their own rotten epiphanies.
*music fades in and out*
This pandemic has isolated us into echo chambers of our own human experiences and rather than dwell on how rough that makes us feel, it’s worth a shot to turn our year of separation into an opportunity for connection.
For me, it started with someone who was right by my side as a pandemic.
*music fades in and out*
Reva certainly didn’t expect her visit to Binghamton, NY to last more than a week. She also probably didn’t expect to have to take classes through her laptop in my living room for a few months, but that’s what happened.
I invited Reva to come stay at my house for spring Break in 2020 because she’s my best friend, yes, but also because the alternative was her staying on campus for a week. And who doesn’t love a home cooked meal once in a while? So we started the week of spring break together in the gloom of my hometown. And then we started the unexpected second week, and then after moving some stuff out of our freshman dorms, we resumed the rest of our semester from home.
Reva stayed until around the middle of May when she went to go visit family and work in Oklahoma and Texas. And during her visit we stepped on each other’s toes for sure, but we were also there for each other through some pretty tough times.
Like myself, Reva hadn’t done much deep reflecting on the pandemic until recently, so I felt it was important to ask her this question: when was the moment she knew that **** was getting real?
*music fades in and out*
Reva: It was definitely when, like I wasn’t able… it was… I think it it started when like we weren’t able to go back on campus, and then summer hit and I wasn’t able to go back home. So I think there were like stages and it just escalated like got worse and worse.
Julie: So what I’m hearing is that it was kind of like a go with the flow, we’ll get through it now and think about it later type of thing. There wasn’t like a specific oh **** moment for you.
Reva: Oh no, I don’t think so. And I think the reason is because I had you. If I had been like at home or like living with my uncle in like Virginia or something, it probably would have hit me ’cause I would have had like no social life so I would have just been like, oh crap, like this, this is real. But I had you, so I was like meeting new people too so I was kind of busy with like college and like adapting to your family lifestyle.
*music fades in and out*
Julie: Tell me about not being able to see your parents during this global pandemic and how hard was it?
Reva: It was definitely tough, but It wasn’t… it wasn’t hard until like time started to pass ’cause I did see them like three or four months before covid really hit us like during winter break. So it wasn’t too hard, but at the same time, like I was concerned about my family safety, and like I know my parents were concerned about mine. They were worried about like if I’m OK with where I’m staying—and I was, it was a great place, loved it. But yeah it was it was difficult but I guess we just kind of adapted to it at some point.
Julie: Yeah, and I think that has a lot to do with moms being moms too, right? I remember that because… I remember us being stuck at my house after second semester, and we had just come back from college. I felt like I was so grown up and so adults that I could take the virus seriously because I was 19 and I knew what was going on in the world, and I was almost done with my first year of college.I felt like an equal with my parents, ’cause I had this college experience and I was 19. But honestly, as the virus developed, I felt like I just wanted to crawl into a hole and cry like a baby, you know.
*music fades in and out*
Tell me about talking to your parents about the pandemic as it developed and you were both kind of in different countries.
Reva: It was, it was weird actually. ’cause when I traveled back come during winter break of 2019, that was when like Covid hit and like there were cases and I went on an airplane at an airport where there were people and that’s the time… that’s around the time of like the Chinese New Year and stuff, so there was like a lot of like people visiting from China. So my mom called me up and she’s like there’s been like cases in China and it’s like spreading like crazy, which sort of freaked me out ’cause I was like Oh no, what if I got like, you know, close to someone who might have had it or something, but that was like that was the one time that we like… that was the first time we talked about it and I was like: you know what? Maybe it’s fine. And I would usually travel like during that time and the Dubai Airport is so pretty during Chinese New Year ’cause they have like the lanterns up, and like all the decorations and I was so hyped, I was like this is great no I really wanted to see this, UM but yeah. I mean, I wasn’t freaked out at the time, but then my mom called me up and freaked me out later. So yeah.
*music fades in and out*
Julie: OK, so I understand that your international experience doesn’t reflect that you’ve been to a million different countries, but you have traveled to India, the UAE and within the US within the span of from the first reported covid case in December until now, did you notice any differences in the way that countries were handling covid protocols?
Reva: I think I know for a fact that they started earlier than we did. ‘Cause do you remember when, like CDC told us like we need masks? We went to the mall.
Julie: And we went. (chuckles)
Reva: We went to the mall. (laughs)
Julie: Yeah.
Reva: Yeah, so yeah I I definitely started earlier for them, also I think it depends on what state we’re talking about ’cause when I went to Oklahoma later on… uhm, we never wore masks at all, and… I was like… yeah, ’cause I was living with like a family I didn’t know so I didn’t want to be the only one like… also at work ’cause I had a job at like this ice cream shop and they didn’t like force us to wear masks until like mid July I wanna say, so even then I would sometimes wear a mask. But yeah I I think it depends on what state we’re talking about ’cause I think New York was pretty strict about it and Oklahoma wasn’t. Uhm, but India definitely started a lot earlier. So did the UAE. They both went into like, I mean that’s all I know like I don’t know about the other countries, but uhm they did go into lockdown for it like way earlier.
Julie: Your job was a drive through, but also there was indoor seating?
Reva: It was like an ice cream shop and burger joint slash supermarket. But yeah, we’ve had like people come in through the drive through and they’re like ‘yo like we have COVID, is there any chance you can like give us like the supermarket goodies through the drive through? And we’re like no get outta here! Looking back I’m like dude wear a mask, but when I was like there, like present, I was like I didn’t want to be looked at differently, so I didn’t wear a mask.
Julie: Yeah, it’s such a different atmosphere and yeah, even like working with people that you don’t know that well, you’re like, ‘oh, I don’t want them to think I’m stuck up’ but at the same time you still have concerns for your health and safety and everybody else’s health and safety.
Reva: Mm-hmm
*music fades in and out*
Reva: I have a ton of those… so many memories. I think just like getting to know the Heaneys and like spending time with you guys was like the greatest experience ’cause you’ve like grown to be like, like I said, like a second family to me. Uhm if I had to say my favorite memory, it would probably be Easter when we went on like an egghunt that was really cute. Oh wait, no, actually it would be when we celebrated my birthday, though he’s still like six or seven months away that was, that was probably my favorite memory ’cause your mom didn’t want me to feel left out ’cause all of you guys had birthdays while we were together. So yeah, that was my favorite memory.
Julie: That was super super cute. That was a good time. That was a good time. We had a birthday cake for Reva, but her birthday was, or it is in November and it was… It was May. It was in fact May.
*music fades in and out*
So we talked about the moment that you knew everything was not the same, that something was serious. And that can be such like a, like a chaotic feeling, just like feeling like a loss of control. I know you and I had different experiences, even though we were so close together at that time. We had different experiences of realization. But I’m curious also about the moment you knew that everything was going to be OK. And if this hasn’t happened yet, do you think there’s something that would make you feel this way?
Reva: Uhm well I… well, when we have like proper information about it, like proper like rules about like 6 feet apart and like masks and everything, I kind of just realized like maybe if we just follow those rules long enough it’ll be back to normal. But even then I was like super worried about the future and stuff and I don’t think I really felt like everything was gonna be OK until until recently when our school sent out the email that we were going back like in person and normal and there will be no online classes. I think that was exactly what I knew like, all right, things are slowly starting to look pretty good, so that was the moment.
Julie: That’s such a good moment. That was like last week. ‘The moment I knew things were going to be OK was last week.’
*music fades in and out*
So tell me, why do you think that you don’t have a concrete moment that you knew everything was serious?
Reva: Uh. I think it’s mainly because. Uhm… ’cause I was like… ’cause I think we were all just like, so like caught up on like trying to adapt and like follow the guidelines and just like basically, yeah, like adapt to it like checking in with your families and like making sure they’re OK, and I guess I never really like took the time to like think about when everything was going to be OK.
Do you have a moment?
Julie: I do.
Reva: What’s your moment?
Julie: Uhm, OK, so my moment is really cheesy.
Reva: OK.
Julie: Uh.’cause I thought, OK, I thought I didn’t have a moment, OK? Uhh, I thought I was like you.
Reva: Nothing wrong with that.
Julie: (laughs) But no OK, The moment I knew everything was going to be OK was when we both got the words It’s not permanent tattooed on our bodies. Becauseif you get the words it’s not permanent tattooed on your body during a global pandemic, and the pandemic is permanent–
Reva: You’re stupid.
Julie: That’s– you’re stupid. And we’re not stupid, so that’s pretty much when I knew. Uhm, yeah. When I realized that I had in fact gotten the tattoo.
I think, well, we both know that stemmed from like that affirmation of ‘it’s not permanent’ that we were saying to each other over the entirety of spring break and the rest of spring semester, or literally until now, because guess what? It’s still global pandemic season… that was probably insensitive. Maybe I’ll cut that out. (chuckles) So I think like that’s not something I would have uhm… repeated to myself if you were not in my life, so I am grateful for you because like when I think of you during that time, I think of this person looking at me going “it’s not permanent dude “and I’m like, OK, maybe I won’t freak out as much today because Reva told me it’s not permanent so yeah.
Reva: It’s the little things… it was, it was really the little things that got me through the pandemic. And I’m super thankful that I had you by my side ’cause you were definitely a part of like the reason why I got through it sane.
Julie: Thank you dude and same goes here, same here. Thank you for coming on and telling your story.
*music fades in and out*
Julie: The dawn of coronavirus restriction and lockdowns meant that the class of 2020 for both high school and college didn’t quite get what they expected. To talk more about this, I sat down with Erin, a current first year at SU.
*music fades in*
You were a high school senior when the pandemic hit, can you tell us about the moment that you knew coronavirus was serious?
*music fades out*
Erin: So for me personally I had a little bit of a different experience because I am from a small rural town in southern Ohio, so we didn’t really see the effects of corona, probably until later March, early April. So for us it wasn’t quite as real because it hadn’t hit home yet. And so it was kind of more, you know, we’re hearing reports and we’re seeing all these things in other States and in the other countries, but we didn’t really have any experience. And my dad works as a nurse practitioner at the local hospital, and now he works with covid patients on a day-to-day basis. But I would say once he started seeing covid patients every day, that’s when I probably realized it was serious. Uhm, because then we are starting to see like it actually hit home too.
Julie: Do you know about when he started seeing covid patients on a day to day?
Erin: I, I would say probably mid-April ’cause we got like… he got a couple like sprinklings, like maybe he’d go into a covid patient room like once a week, and then it was like 2 times a week, and then like it gradually increased as more cases started around my home.
Julie: Yeah, that’s, that’s so crazy. So through your dad’s experience, that kind of like made it real for you. Was there like, a lot of fear associated with that that you were going to get covid? How were you dealing with that?
Erin: I wouldn’t say fear, UM, ’cause both my parents have worked at the hospital for such a long time that like me and my siblings, we know that there’s always the possibility of something, but my dad and my mom both took a lot of precautions. We had buckets out in the garage that he would strip and then he would like, he had this funky like Face Shield that he would like put in the buckets to be cleaned and he would strip as soon as he came in and like run straight up to the shower and for the first couple weeks. It was like a little nerve wracking but then it was, it was just kind of like a new normal.
*music fades in and out*
Julie: How did that feel in school at the time? How did that process of kind of being on break and then not going go for you?
Erin: Yeah. It was weird because when we left, we all kind of were, you know, anticipated it just to be like a quick two weeks and then we would be back at school. But then the more like I found out from my dad and keep seeing on the news and everything that we were seeing Covid was real, but it still didn’t feel real because we hadn’t been personally affected, so we were still going to the stores without masks on and like all sorts of stuff because we didn’t have any cases. Uhm, but definitely as a senior, I think it made it easier because our teachers were basically like you know, you got a couple weeks left, just turned in which you got like it wasn’t super stressful because our teachers were just like there’s no point in like really hammering anything because we were on the downslide anyway.
Julie: Yeah yeah, I bet. I remember like, just that feeling of well, it’s not in my area right now, so it’s not as bad, right? Like I went to, I went to the mall, like a huge mall with my friend and we didn’t wear masks because, they said, remember at the beginning, that it was said that we didn’t really need them, you know? So yeah, no I do remember that very vividly and now it’s like I was so stupid, not wearing one.
Erin: Yeah, hindsight is always 2020.
Julie: Correct, very correct.
Did you have a lot of senior things stripped away from you like prom, graduation?
*music fades in and out*
Erin: So we did not get prom and we had like, for me personally I am on the swim team here at Susquehanna and we were actually on the way to our senior… not our senior but like our championship meet and that was kind of really disappointing for me because we were driving, on our way there, when it was cancelled. ’cause I have a really strong bond with my club team back at home and I didn’t really get that final meet with my family essentially and I’d had a lot of struggles throughout high school with my swimming career and I was finally like in a good place and I was excited to see like where my times were going to be in like how I was going to be able to move on going forward and that was cancelled. Uhm, and we didn’t really get a make up, obviously due to reasons of Covid. We had prom cancelled. We were lucky enough to get a graduation but it wasn’t like a typical graduation. We were in like a giant football stadium and it was basically like you all get your diploma and then like leave that was about it.
Julie: I can’t even imagine that, that’s just such a such a big loss.
Erin: Yeah, and especially it was like canceled pretty much as like the last possible minute because there had been like a bunch of meetings like the week leading up and our coach was like we’re gonna have it. Like this is for sure like you’re in chlorinated water like it’s fine. And then we were driving there and they, they cancelled it pretty much 2 hours before warmups were scheduled for that night, so there is people already. Up at the pool when they cancelled that was definitely very disappointing.
Julie: Yeah, did it feel like that a lot? Like you were just kind of being –you weren’t being strung along because everybody was trying to make it happen like they weren’t lying to you–but still there was just so much hope and it didn’t happen. Did it feel like that a lot? Because it was kind of senior events and precollege events for you.
Erin: Uhm, yes and no. I mean, in the beginning I would definitely say yes, especially when things eally uncertain. Towards like the beginning or a freshman year of college, things were being shipped away, but SU was definitely doing what they could to give us almost like a normal freshman year. Normal is not the right word, but give us some experiences. And then we had more information about covid, and we knew what was happening so, uhm it definitely it got better.
Julie: Yeah, this leads me into my next question kind of: how does your current college experience differ from what you expected in terms of changes made by the pandemic?
Erin: So pretty much everything was completely different. I mean, everyone always tells you like college is this amazing experience where you can, you… you find yourself basically and you really don’t understand college until you go to college, but anything that I was anticipating or expecting to happen basically like had to wipe the slate clean like everything was different. Especially like swimming, I’ve swam my whole life. Not being able to have like the one thing that’s always been constant in my life and not being able to do that consistently. That definitely sucked a lot, especially like the start and stop of the swim program and not just swim, but athletics in general. Uh, it definitely took some getting used to going to class with masks on, and the hybrid model. I’ve personally, whenever we’ve taken standardized tests in high school like I always hated when they were online. I’m a paper and pencil girl all the way and I definitely had an adjustment going just from the test online, but to actually having to take classes online and ad I can’t wait to get back in person for everything. But it definitely just…everything was completely different. Nothing was as you would expect and we just had to make this change like on the drop of a dime and figure it out ’cause no one, there wasn’t really anyone we could ask for advice or how to get through this because no one really had experienced it before.
Julie: Yeah, that’s like… kudos to you for getting through that, and you’re on campus, you’ve been on campus for both semesters, I assume?
Erin: Yes.
Julie: During my first year I remember I was so anxious and, like you can ask people, right? You can ask how is this? What can I expect? But you can’t ask anybody about that and that’s… that’s got to be so rough.
Erin: Yes.
Julie: So kudos to you and all of the other first years at Susquehanna that l are where you are right now, like I really can’t believe that. I also haven’t seen a lot of first years on campus, so I’m convinced they’re not real… except for you.
Erin: Yeah. (laughs). No, it definitely my biggest fear was like in the weeks leading up to our first week on campus, I was afraid that we were gonna get like sent all online ’cause I wanted to go away from home as like much as possible and when we were sent home early last semester like that was really devastating because I really was starting like to get the hang of things with covid and like being on campus and then like we got sent home. So it was kind of like another one of those… you gotta flip on a dime again because you’re just like starting to get the hang of like being a freshman in college during Covid, and then we got sent home. But this semester has definitely been a lot better. I think I’ve finally gotten the hang of it here at the last couple weeks.
*music fades in and out*
Julie: How has it been meeting people as a freshman during the pandemic. I can imagine it’s been really hard.
Erin: Yeah, it’s definitely been difficult. I had.. I don’t wanna say.. the luxury, but uhm, that’s the only word that I can think of right now of living in Reed where everyone’s like more of a close-knit community. So, it’s been like easier to meet people because of that. But as for like classes and stuff I like don’t know unless like I know them from before. I don’t know anyone in any of my classes like we don’t really talk after class like, you don’t do much with, you know you got the occupancy limit and wearing the mask, it’s kind of almost not scary to meet new people, but it almost like deters you from like getting to know and meet new people. But I definitely say I’ve gotten really close with a handful of people on campus, and I definitely think Covid has helped with that. I guess in a way because as freshmen we’re all trying to figure out the same thing, so it kind of brings us together more ’cause we’re going through the same hardship.
Julie: That’s really interesting. I don’t think I thought of it that way and I really appreciate that like that insight right there.
*music fades in and out*
Was there a moment that you knew everything was going to be OK?
Erin: Yeah. Yeah, actually it’s been kind of the most recent couple of weeks, especially around campus. Seeing like rules lighten up and stuff, and I actually just signed up to get my vaccine on Monday, so that’s super exciting! I’ve seen a lot of people on campus being vaccinated and seeing that, and like next semester we’re supposed to go back to like the old normal and like the world like starting to open up again, because of the vaccine and I’m so excited to, you know, be able to go out and concerts. That’s like my big thing. I can’t wait to go back to concerts. So yeah, definitely these past couple weeks have made me feel like it’s gonna be OK and we’re getting we’re like worse like seeing the light at the end of the tunnel right now.
Julie: I know live music is my favorite thing, my favorite thing. I think it’s like one of, like live music is one of those experience in life that, like really makes you feel alive. So it’s interesting how spring is coming like there is definitely a feeling of being alive in the air.
Well I really appreciate, after this year, I’m glad to hear that you kind of have that feeling. It makes me really happy to see that.
*music fades in and out*
Julie (after interview): The ability that humans have to adapt is such a wonderful thing, and I think Erin’s story really showcases the core of all that graduates have had to overcome, that graduates have really had to put aside their fears and all these unknowns and persevere through new uhm, new opportunity and new beginnings not only because of the future that they have set ahead of them, but also because of the pandemic and all the changes that means to the future they’ve looked forward to for so long.
So thanks for coming on, Erin.
Gabbi:
You are listening to Me/US/U, I’m Gabbi Rubino and … today I’d like you to consider the pandemic from maybe a different perspective than you already have. For many of us the moment that we knew that COVID-19 was maybe going to stick around for longer than we expected or might be more serious than we anticipated revolved around the interruption of our day-to-day activities. Like you have to wear a mask to the grocery store or SURPRISE you go to school from home now! And many of us I don’t think realized that having that moment to process everything that was going on was actually quite a luxury … and for many people around the world they didn’t get that moment.
I mean for people that experienced an unexpected loss for example, their whole worlds were turned upside down and that is the same for scientists and health care providers that basically just had to put down whatever they were doing and … be superheroes … and that is the case for my guest today Dr. Neeltje van Doremalen. She is a virologist at Rocky Mountain labs in Montana and she works for the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases here in the United States … and she didn’t exactly have a moment that she knew … there seemed to be a moment … and then do.
* “As Time Passes” begins to play – marimba driven underscore with an inquisitive, informational and factual feel, marimba leads with percussion underneath from Zapsplat.com*
Neeltje: For me at the end of December I started realizing something was going on in China and I figured it out via Twitter because there’s a lot of scientists on Twitter that started talking about it and then it was January 9 that we realized there was a Coronavirus and then January 10 the sequence was released. So, I looked at that that Friday evening. I sat at home with my laptop and just compared it to other viruses like a lot of other virologists did as well, and at that point because it looks quite a bit like SARS one, I already started to think OK this could be this could be big … So then I went to the UK I had a work visit at the Jenner Institute who have developed the AstraZeneca vaccine. We were checking every day the case numbers, but I think for me when it really became a little bit like OK this is gonna get worse than what I thought it would be was when we got the first case in Europe and the US and then it started growing and growing and growing. But I keep on like every time I look back at it, I never would have predicted this even in like February I was like “oh this could be big” but not as big as it got, it was …theoretically you think that this can happen but to actually see it happen is … yeah, different.
*Music fades away*
Gabbi:
Ugh, so many of us were blindsided by this pandemic. I think hearing you as a virologist say that not even you could have predicted the severity makes me feel a little bit better honestly. But, before the pandemic you were working on studies with the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome or MERS? Right?
Neeltje: That’s correct.
Gabbi:
So did you have to just completely set that aside and focus on SARS-2 then?
Neeltje:
Yeah we did. Yeah, we weren’t really allowed to work on anything else at that point but um, it kind of was an easy transition for me. So we, I’ve been working on MERS-CoV since 2015 when I first started working with Vincent Munster and one of the things that we worked on, which that work started in 2017, was a vaccine against MERS-CoV. And that was in collaboration with the Jenner Institute with Dr. Sarah Gilbert and Teresa Lambe and they developed a vaccine called ChAdOx1 MERS. So we tested at first in mice, and then we turned to nonhuman primates, and showed that it worked really well actually. So then when we realized that SARS-2 was a coronavirus as well, they made a vaccine based on their original MERS vaccine, and I just copied the study that I did previously. I repeated that. So for me it wasn’t necessarily that much of a switch it was just a different virus that you working with, but because I’ve been working with coronavirus for such a long time it … it was pretty easy to do that.
Gabbi:
Well that’s good at least that you didn’t have to completely pivot if there were similarities between MERS and SARS-2, you got to replicate a few studies, but what about your workday? What did that look like in the beginning? Was it just complete chaos rush to complete these studies and figure things out for vaccine preparation or… I mean I know even now when we were planning a time for this interview, you’re still so busy, so I can’t imagine what it was like in the beginning…
Neeltje:
It was, it was quite crazy it was really overwhelming, especially because, so the non-human study that we did looking at their vaccine … Oxford University really wanted to see those results before they were wanting to vaccinate the first volunteer, with one of the fears would be that you would get immune enhanced disease from vaccination. Which means that people that are vaccinated get a disease that’s much worse than without a vaccination, so they really wanted to ensure that we at least didn’t see that in nonhuman primates. So we had to perform the study as quickly as we possibly could, and provide like, reliable and good results. So we got the vaccine, I think we vaccinated our animals in March, and I reported back to Oxford University mid-April and they vaccinated their first volunteer the very next day. So there was a lot of pressure on us to get those results out. I actually really enjoyed that because I never before, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus, although it’s very important, it’s kind of obscure in a way that a lot of people in the states have never even heard of it, so now my work is being pulled more into, uh you know, the public section which is really really cool … but different … lots of pressure. I think nowadays … I think I’m either more used to it or we just kinda found a good rhythm. We have a lot of support from other people so nowadays a lot of my work is actually just being in the office instead of being in a lab and doing all the work and so it’s calmed down a little bit and I think that’s needed as well because I don’t think we can expect people to work … like I think I was working easily 12, 16 hours, I would get phone calls at 11 in the evening asking questions etc … and I can’t work like that the rest of my life I, I can’t focus anymore.
Gabbi:
No, I can only imagine … I was, when I was talking to my peers about this interview and we’re considering the workload that all the researchers across the world basically were doing in the pressure that you all were under, we were thinking about how we’re complaining that we don’t get a spring break this semester and *Neeltje laughs* that week that we have a break, we can’t even imagine the pressure that you’ve all been under…
Neeltje:
Right
Gabbi:
… so I mean yeah we appreciate it, we really do.
Neeltje:
Yeah
I think I was, I think it was April or May, where I calculated that I had my second day off that year and that includes all the weekend, I didn’t have a single weekend day off. So and now it’s kind of the point that I was like maybe I need to like take a step back and try to give myself some rest as well.
Gabbi:
Wow, yeah that is impressive definitely days off well deserved … but I don’t think a lot of people considered, I mean we were complaining about being locked in the house, but there are some people that never even saw their houses. So yeah that’s something to keep in mind.
Neeltje:
Yeah yeah yeah…but it’s fantastic what the scientific community has been able to do in such a short time, so it is definitely worth it. I wouldn’t change it for the world.
Gabbi:
Wow, yeah that’s something I hadn’t considered, but I guess you’re right we got a lot of scientific advancements and study results like the vaccine in such a limited time because it was so needed and…well-funded I guess at this point. But…another question I had was what would you tell people who are maybe hesitant about getting the vaccine? Because it all happened so fast and maybe they’re worried that the research was too rushed or maybe they’re just worried about side effects that are unknown, things like that.
Neeltje:
Yeah I understand where those concerns are coming from cause you are right it’s much faster than we ever been able to do, but we haven’t cut any corners. So because scientists have been working so insanely hard we are able to do the same work that we would normally take years to do. So that means that normally, so it’s quite a financial commitment to make these vaccines, so now governments stepped in and said that they would cover part of those costs so that really helped out and and people were overlaying different phases, so you could do certain things at the same time that you normally wouldn’t do, because you want to make sure that the vaccine was working before you would go to the next step and the next step. So that really allowed us to do everything much faster. And then on top of that because SARS CoV-2 was spreading like wildfire…when you’re doing the clinical trials, the phase three clinical trials, a lot of people were getting infected all the time so that allows you to look at the results and actually draw conclusion from those phase three clinical trials and if you have a virus that doesn’t spread as well it takes much longer to get to that number of infections that we would require to know whether the vaccine is working or not.
Gabbi:
Well, I am very pumped about getting my vaccine. I am on a wait list for it hope it happens soon, but if I wasn’t already sold on the idea, I would be sold after that. I think you made some really good points. I also want to ask you, because you are a virologist, so I’m sure whether it’s family members, friends, people on the Internet, I’m sure they’re asking you a ton of questions. Are there any questions that you wish they’d ask or consider that they don’t?
Neeltje:
Yeah so my initial work was done on the stability of SARS 2, so I got a lot of questions on that. Mostly people asking, you know, if they went grocery shopping what should they do, should they clean up all their products etc, and now most of the questions I get are about the vaccines and whether they safe, and whether I have taken a vaccine, and how they work etc. And all of those questions are really really good. I think it’s actually fascinating how involved nonscientists are and how good the questions are that they are asking. My favorite subject is always the next pandemic and thinking about what could happen. There are people who are actually asking me about that as well which I really really enjoyed, but that’s just a hypothetical discussion which I’m hoping to keep that way for a long time. but we’ll see.
Gabbi:
Ugh, I can’t even imagine that, another pandemic. Let’s hope that isn’t anytime soon, but I guess we have to consider where this one came from. Do you think the way that we’re interacting with our environment could have anything to do with future viruses popping up?
Neeltje:
Yeah, so I think one of the things that we as humans are doing more and more is intersecting with different wildlife and that increases the chances of encountering a virus that is able to transmit between humans. So I think if we don’t reduce our contact with wildlife, I think it’s highly likely that we will have another pandemic. I don’t know when that will happen, or if that’s going to happen within our lifetimes, I honestly hope it won’t, and I think it’s likely that it will… if that makes sense.
Gabbi:
That is definitely a scary thing to consider I don’t know if we’re all ready to consider that hypothetical, but we might need to get to be because it’s very real situation that like you said could, and probably will, happen again in our lifetime, so how do we be more prepared next time you know? I guess we’ll see. But to leave on a more hopeful note, was there a moment, rather than the moment you knew, was there a moment that you had hope that we were going to get through this?
Neeltje:
Yeah, yeah, so for me the first like little sparkle of hope was when I saw the results of our non-human primate study in which we showed that the vaccine works really well against our respiratory tract infection, so that the pneumonia basically. That, that was really exciting and then I think the biggest hope moment was when Pfizer published their phase three clinical trial data, cause they had, I can’t remember the exact percentage, 94% with phase 3, which was so much higher than I expected, and that really was encouraging to hear. And then of course Moderna came out with very similar results and for me that, that like started, like that’s the signal of that we will be able to end this. So I am hopeful that with vaccination we are going to be able to have a normal life again.
Gabbi:
Yeah I think the vaccine is definitely a spark of hope for many of us. That’s definitely a sign that we can maybe get back to normal soon, so fingers crossed everything works out. But thank you again for coming to talk to me, I’m really excited about this, and I hope our listeners…well I know our listeners definitely learned a thing or two that maybe they didn’t know before, so thank you again.
Neeltje:
Yeah, thank you so much.
*Night Owl by Broke For Free plays*
Gabbi:
J’aurai le brunch spécial s’il vous plaît… I remember ordering that in French trying my hardest to get the brunch special at the Parisian cafe that we were at and looking at my friend Vito very expectantly to see if any of what I had said even remotely sounded like words.
We all had a good laugh over how terrible some of our French was, but we were trying so A for effort… and then all of a sudden *phones vibrate and text alerts sound* all of our phones rang at the same time very ominously and …
Chanteé Lans CBS 3 Philadelphia:
Temple University siblings 21-year-old Dominique and 20- year-old Vito Quaglia and their childhood friend Susquehanna University junior Gabriela Rubino leaving Italy midway through their study abroad program was not part of the plan…
Gabbi, Vito and Dominique:
We’re sad. Absolutely Heartbroken. So Sad. Yeah.
Chanteé Lans CBS 3 Philadelphia:
The three Pittston PA natives on spring break in Paris France due to the Coronavirus outbreak it’s closing its in person academic operations in Rome for the remainder of the spring semester. All 50 plus students living on the Rome campus must now pack their belongings and head home.
Gabbi:
So we all looked down at our phones and saw the email that we had to leave as soon as possible and I just remember us all looking at each other and just bursting into tears. Our waiter was very confused, but we were devastated. It was really sad. We decided to go out with a bang and spend the money that we had saved for the rest of the, at least month and a half that we had expected to be there and go to Disneyland Paris. *roller coaster running on a track*
So we did, and it was magical *fairy tale twinkly music* and definitely the last time I’ve been around any large number of people, or any amount of people in general without a mask on, and it was very very interesting. It felt like the pandemic didn’t exist because I guess at that point it was just quartered to China and Italy so we got lucky. But then we came back to the hotel room and packed frantically. I’ve never packed that fast in my life. And our main worry wasn’t that we were going to get covid, or like we weren’t very scared of the pandemic, *ominous music* I think a lot of people had it in our heads that The United States was going to quarantine us for weeks in a hospital away from our family, or something. And that was what we were most concerned about, was that we were going to have trouble getting back in the United States.
But two days later I was packing my bags to go home, and the day after that I arrived. There was nothing at the airport. There were no checks, they didn’t even take our temperature in New Jersey when I landed. And before I knew it, I was already snuggled up in my bed at home, and it felt like the whole thing had been a dream… or rather a nightmare.
But many people assume that the moment that I really felt the effects of COVID, and knew that it might be more serious than we expected was when I was in Rome, but I remember having friends tell me that they were wearing masks to go home in the airports in Rome to New Jersey and it just sounded like the most ridiculous thing to me. I think that my main focus was just to find a way back to the United States and I would kind of deal with the rest later.
*melancholy techno beat*
From that point on, I spent most of my time mourning the rest of my study abroad experience that I did not get to have. And selfishly, I think the pandemic felt like it was only happening to me for a little bit. You know, I felt like my friends and I had our whole world upside down and then slowly I was hearing from different programs all around the world. My roommate from Susquehanna was in Australia and soon she was coming home as well, and it seemed like wherever there was a Susquehanna student the pandemic was spreading, and we were all eventually home. And then sooner than later the pandemic was home and it went from something that I thought had just kind of ruined a trip for me, to this is our every day now. And I think a month later, after I had come home, was the moment that I knew, wow we’ve been in lockdown in the United States for around 2 weeks now and this doesn’t seem to be letting up. That was my process it went from “Woe is me, this is something that just affected my friends who won’t be able to get this beautiful cross cultural experience anymore” to “Wow this is an international problem and now not only do I have to worry about the people that I met from all over the world, but the pandemic is now closer to home than I ever thought it was going to be.”
*hopeful music begins to play*
But here we are more than a year later, and people are getting vaccinated, and I think the moment that I started to get hope again was when my family members were able to give the vaccine and I didn’t have to worry about them so much. And now I’m on a wait list to get the vaccine. We’ve come a long way, but I think we’ll be okay. I can’t wait to go back to Italy one day and finish what I started.
Cory: The moment I started to have hope
Syd: when Biden was elected
Kayla: definitely the vaccines getting tested and then getting approved
Amy: as a nurse was when we disassembled our pandemic treatment tents
Cory: when my grandmother got the vaccine
Syd: knowing that we finally have a president who’s gonna take this seriously
Kayla: Biden’s push to make it more available like so by this point pretty much every person over 18 and Pennsylvania can get the vaccine right now
Amy: hospitals were so overrun with patients there were lines out the doors, so we had to expand our treatment areas in the form of tents. The day we took them down there were lots of tears of relief and we all knew there was hope at that moment.
*Night Owl by Broke For Free*
Gabbi:
Me/Us/U is produced by students at Susquehanna University. We are gratefully advised by Dr Heather Lang. This episode was written, recorded, and edited by Julie Heaney and Gabriela Rubino. Special thanks to our editorial intern Nicole Frank and to our interviewees Reva, Erin, Dr. Neeltje van Doremalen, Kayla, Syd, Cory, and Amy. Another thank you to Ken from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease for getting me in contact with Dr. Van Doremalen. Our theme music is Night Owl by Broke For Free other music featured in this episode is Ta-Da! by Siddhartha Corsus, sound effects and other instrumentals from this episode were provided by zapsplat.com. An audio clip in this episode was also featured from Chanteé Lans at CBS 3 Philadelphia.
To hear the rest of Me/Us/U season 2, check us out at me-us-u.org or find us wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.
